Looking at the replay, it seems to me that Jeff Burton didn’t move all the
way up to the wall as one would normally expect coming out of the turn. In
fact, he stopped moving up, around one full groove away from the wall.
Which is where JJ, who was inside JB, surely expected that his car was going
to sit after they exited the corner.
I think JB though he was clear of JJ’s bumper, and wanted to stay one groove
down to prevent JJ from getting inside him on the next corner. Only, since
he wasn’t, as JJ moved up to the natural spot, it was occupied by JB, and JB
got turned around.
Watch the replays and chime in.
Didn’t hear anything to this effect from anyone involved — though I didn’t
see JJ’s post race interview…
-Russ.
"Somebody" wrote …
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Looking at the replay, it seems to me that Jeff Burton didn’t move all the
> way up to the wall as one would normally expect coming out of the turn. In
> fact, he stopped moving up, around one full groove away from the wall.
> Which is where JJ, who was inside JB, surely expected that his car was going
> to sit after they exited the corner.
> I think JB though he was clear of JJ’s bumper, and wanted to stay one groove
> down to prevent JJ from getting inside him on the next corner. Only, since
> he wasn’t, as JJ moved up to the natural spot, it was occupied by JB, and JB
> got turned around.
> Watch the replays and chime in.
> Didn’t hear anything to this effect from anyone involved — though I didn’t
> see JJ’s post race interview…
I don’t think I watched it THAT closely, Russ, but I was leaning to the ‘just a
racing deal’ rather than the ‘JJ screwed up’ side based on the couple of replays
they had. I thought JB was a little overly peeved.
"WildWeasel" <wweasel…@HooYah.com> wrote in message
news:EIWcnQ463ob42MzfUSdV9g@ptd.net…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Somebody" wrote …
> > Looking at the replay, it seems to me that Jeff Burton didn’t move all
the
> > way up to the wall as one would normally expect coming out of the turn.
In
> > fact, he stopped moving up, around one full groove away from the wall.
> > Which is where JJ, who was inside JB, surely expected that his car was
going
> > to sit after they exited the corner.
> > I think JB though he was clear of JJ’s bumper, and wanted to stay one
groove
> > down to prevent JJ from getting inside him on the next corner. Only,
since
> > he wasn’t, as JJ moved up to the natural spot, it was occupied by JB,
and JB
> > got turned around.
> > Watch the replays and chime in.
> > Didn’t hear anything to this effect from anyone involved — though I
didn’t
> > see JJ’s post race interview…
> I don’t think I watched it THAT closely, Russ, but I was leaning to the
‘just a
> racing deal’ rather than the ‘JJ screwed up’ side based on the couple of
replays
> they had. I thought JB was a little overly peeved.
I think he was just mad because he had such a good run going, and really
deserved a good finish I think. Frustration more than anything — when the
guy he figures wrecked him seems to walk on water for the last 30 races or
so as far as race results.
-Russ.
"WildWeasel" <wweasel…@HooYah.com> wrote in message
news:EIWcnQ463ob42MzfUSdV9g@ptd.net…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Somebody" wrote …
> > Looking at the replay, it seems to me that Jeff Burton didn’t move all the
> > way up to the wall as one would normally expect coming out of the turn. In
> > fact, he stopped moving up, around one full groove away from the wall.
> > Which is where JJ, who was inside JB, surely expected that his car was going
> > to sit after they exited the corner.
> > I think JB though he was clear of JJ’s bumper, and wanted to stay one groove
> > down to prevent JJ from getting inside him on the next corner. Only, since
> > he wasn’t, as JJ moved up to the natural spot, it was occupied by JB, and JB
> > got turned around.
> > Watch the replays and chime in.
> > Didn’t hear anything to this effect from anyone involved — though I didn’t
> > see JJ’s post race interview…
> I don’t think I watched it THAT closely, Russ, but I was leaning to the ‘just a
> racing deal’ rather than the ‘JJ screwed up’ side based on the couple of replays
> they had. I thought JB was a little overly peeved.
Agreed that JB was overly peeved, but then he is now driving for Richard Childress.
It doesn’t seem to take much for RCR drivers to get offended by other drivers.
In this particular instance, JB’s lips didn’t seem to match his words–
‘I got out of (JJ’s) way.’
As The Best Driver in Cup, especially since he is a Hendrick driver,
criticism of the #48 seems to be very acceptable, more so than all other drivers.
Has the 48 team issued a statement today?
They chose not to comment on that incident (and others, like Mikey) post-race.
CRU
"Somebody" wrote …
> "WildWeasel" wrote …
> I think he was just mad because he had such a good run going, and really
> deserved a good finish I think. Frustration more than anything — when the
> guy he figures wrecked him seems to walk on water for the last 30 races or
> so as far as race results.
Probably. But I think JB *does* tend to call people out pretty specifically and
by name when the situation isn’t always quite that clear cut.
"Somebody" <someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote in
news:Cz24e.416$5u4.1458@nnrp1.uunet.ca:
> Looking at the replay, it seems to me that Jeff Burton didn’t move all
> the way up to the wall as one would normally expect coming out of the
> turn. In fact, he stopped moving up, around one full groove away from
> the wall. Which is where JJ, who was inside JB, surely expected that
> his car was going to sit after they exited the corner.
> I think JB though he was clear of JJ’s bumper, and wanted to stay one
> groove down to prevent JJ from getting inside him on the next corner.
> Only, since he wasn’t, as JJ moved up to the natural spot, it was
> occupied by JB, and JB got turned around.
One possibility. Another is that Burton spun the tires a little
coming off the corner, which would both tend to keep him in a
somewhat lower line, and would slow him up slightly. Or maybe
it’s both – Burton was trying to stay low, pinched the car down
and thus loosened it up, preventing him accelerating out of the
corner properly.
Either way, Johnson was being aggressive coming off the corner,
and didn’t give Burton any slack. He could have eased off a tad,
and made a clean pass later. But on the other hand, race car
drivers are paid to be aggressive; it’s how races are won.
So my take – it’s one of those racing deals.
Johnson won’t be getting any favors from Burton for the next
few races, however.
John
"John McCoy" <igop…@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962ECA149260pogosupernews@216.168.3.30…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Somebody" <someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote in
> news:Cz24e.416$5u4.1458@nnrp1.uunet.ca:
> > Looking at the replay, it seems to me that Jeff Burton didn’t move all
> > the way up to the wall as one would normally expect coming out of the
> > turn. In fact, he stopped moving up, around one full groove away from
> > the wall. Which is where JJ, who was inside JB, surely expected that
> > his car was going to sit after they exited the corner.
> > I think JB though he was clear of JJ’s bumper, and wanted to stay one
> > groove down to prevent JJ from getting inside him on the next corner.
> > Only, since he wasn’t, as JJ moved up to the natural spot, it was
> > occupied by JB, and JB got turned around.
> One possibility. Another is that Burton spun the tires a little
> coming off the corner, which would both tend to keep him in a
> somewhat lower line, and would slow him up slightly. Or maybe
> it’s both – Burton was trying to stay low, pinched the car down
> and thus loosened it up, preventing him accelerating out of the
> corner properly.
That is possible, but from the replay I saw, Burton didn’t move forward or
backward with respect to Jimmy’s bumper, it was in bascially the spot you
would expect it to be on a corner exit. The thing that struck me was the
cessation of movement towards the wall by JB’s car immediately prior to the
contact.
> Either way, Johnson was being aggressive coming off the corner,
> and didn’t give Burton any slack. He could have eased off a tad,
> and made a clean pass later. But on the other hand, race car
> drivers are paid to be aggressive; it’s how races are won.
> So my take – it’s one of those racing deals.
> Johnson won’t be getting any favors from Burton for the next
> few races, however.
Pretty much right all around there John. With JB in particular, who I would
say is known to be a clean racer, it wouldn’t have hurt to give a bit more
space, but passing at Bristol is hard and when you are inside a guy, you
tend to want to make is stick — the normal thing, is that once you’re
inside, the pass is made, it’s not really a multi-groove racetrack. The
give and take tends to be that the guy on the outside has to check his
mirror and figure out what’s *behind* the guy that’s inside him — to make
the decision "do I make this hard or easy" because he might want to slot
right back in asap to avoid getting shuffled. Sometimes a quick lift and a
bit of room, to let the guy pass quickly, gets you back in line far sooner
than making him work hard for it which slows him down and closes up all the
guys behind him so that you get freight trained.
-Russ.
<r_e_d_n_a_…@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:age5511ggnih7ufdmmh1qlq86dfaidu3qu@4ax.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On 5 Apr 2005 13:10:09 GMT, "Somebody" <someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com>
wrote:
> >"John McCoy" <igop…@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >news:Xns962ECA149260pogosupernews@216.168.3.30…
> >> "Somebody" <someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote in
> >> news:Cz24e.416$5u4.1458@nnrp1.uunet.ca:
> >> > Looking at the replay, it seems to me that Jeff Burton didn’t move
all
> >> > the way up to the wall as one would normally expect coming out of the
> >> > turn. In fact, he stopped moving up, around one full groove away
from
> >> > the wall. Which is where JJ, who was inside JB, surely expected that
> >> > his car was going to sit after they exited the corner.
> >> > I think JB though he was clear of JJ’s bumper, and wanted to stay one
> >> > groove down to prevent JJ from getting inside him on the next corner.
> >> > Only, since he wasn’t, as JJ moved up to the natural spot, it was
> >> > occupied by JB, and JB got turned around.
> >> One possibility. Another is that Burton spun the tires a little
> >> coming off the corner, which would both tend to keep him in a
> >> somewhat lower line, and would slow him up slightly. Or maybe
> >> it’s both – Burton was trying to stay low, pinched the car down
> >> and thus loosened it up, preventing him accelerating out of the
> >> corner properly.
> >That is possible, but from the replay I saw, Burton didn’t move forward
or
> >backward with respect to Jimmy’s bumper, it was in bascially the spot you
> >would expect it to be on a corner exit. The thing that struck me was the
> >cessation of movement towards the wall by JB’s car immediately prior to
the
> >contact.
> >> Either way, Johnson was being aggressive coming off the corner,
> >> and didn’t give Burton any slack. He could have eased off a tad,
> >> and made a clean pass later. But on the other hand, race car
> >> drivers are paid to be aggressive; it’s how races are won.
> >> So my take – it’s one of those racing deals.
> >> Johnson won’t be getting any favors from Burton for the next
> >> few races, however.
> >Pretty much right all around there John. With JB in particular, who I
would
> >say is known to be a clean racer, it wouldn’t have hurt to give a bit
more
> >space, but passing at Bristol is hard and when you are inside a guy, you
> >tend to want to make is stick — the normal thing, is that once you’re
> >inside, the pass is made, it’s not really a multi-groove racetrack. The
> >give and take tends to be that the guy on the outside has to check his
> >mirror and figure out what’s *behind* the guy that’s inside him — to
make
> >the decision "do I make this hard or easy" because he might want to slot
> >right back in asap to avoid getting shuffled. Sometimes a quick lift and
a
> >bit of room, to let the guy pass quickly, gets you back in line far
sooner
> >than making him work hard for it which slows him down and closes up all
the
> >guys behind him so that you get freight trained.
> >-Russ.
> I don’t think JB was far enough up under JJ to have the line. If his front
bumper
> was up beside JJ’s door it would be a different story – he should have
backed
> off and let JJ have the line…
Which indcident are you talking about? JJ was on the inside when JB was
spun out.
Regardless… at Bristol, if you have the inside, the pass will complete —
nobody can hold the outside. So, if you’ve gotten to where you can stick
your nose in there, and you have the lane through the turn, which JB gave
him, why back out? You’re just putting it off another turn or two.
At Bristol, the decision to take or not take the bottom groove is made going
in to the corner, and JB left it open for JJ, because he was inside going in
It was going out where the problem occured. I contend because JB didn’t
move as high as normal. JB will contend it was because he got punted. I
think JB thought he somehow magically got clear coming out of the corner —
which is rarely ever done.
-Russ.
<r_e_d_n_a_…@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:pfi551584fj8o9h724usd1ha9oq561aaqs@4ax.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:54:28 CST, "Somebody"
<someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote:
> >> I don’t think JB was far enough up under JJ to have the line. If his
front
> >bumper
> >> was up beside JJ’s door it would be a different story – he should have
> >backed
> >> off and let JJ have the line…
> >Which indcident are you talking about? JJ was on the inside when JB was
> >spun out.
> >Regardless… at Bristol, if you have the inside, the pass will
complete —
> >nobody can hold the outside. So, if you’ve gotten to where you can stick
> >your nose in there, and you have the lane through the turn, which JB gave
> >him, why back out? You’re just putting it off another turn or two.
> >At Bristol, the decision to take or not take the bottom groove is made
going
> >in to the corner, and JB left it open for JJ, because he was inside going
in
> >It was going out where the problem occured. I contend because JB didn’t
> >move as high as normal. JB will contend it was because he got punted. I
> >think JB thought he somehow magically got clear coming out of the
corner —
> >which is rarely ever done.
> >-Russ.
> I just watched the incident once – three days ago – so you are probably
right.
> I do know I remember that JJ was well ahead of JB and that JB had his nose
> in the wrong place at the wrong time – he should have backed off…
Again, backwards… JJ was had his nose inside JB. When JB stopped moving
up, JJ was still moving up and tagged his left rear quarter, spinning him
out.
-Russ.
"Steve Scott" <ssco…@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pm3651179slege8k5gsgqsgmtpeiaghfpq@4ax.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> It was the other way around JB was a lap(s) down car on the outside.
> JJ got his nose under IB going into the corner and tapped JB in the LR
> as they were coming off the corner. It was very minor contact at a
> very bad spot.
> Maybe JB could’ve backed off a bit more or driven a bit higher and
> given JJ a little more consideration since JJ was a lead lap car.
> Maybe JJ could have backed out a bit so he didn’t slide up so far. On
> the other hand he was a lead lap car and it looked to me like 3-4"
> would have made a difference.
> On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 12:35:26 CST, r_e_d_n_a_…@mchsi.com wrote:
> >I just watched the incident once – three days ago – so you are probably
right.
> >I do know I remember that JJ was well ahead of JB and that JB had his
nose
> >in the wrong place at the wrong time – he should have backed off…
Are you sure JB was a lap down? I thought that was for position.
-Russ.
"Somebody" <someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com> wrote in message
news:O0F4e.763$5u4.2665@nnrp1.uunet.ca…
> Are you sure JB was a lap down? I thought that was for position.
> -Russ.
Yeah. Burton wasn’t a lap down at the time.
michael
"Steve Scott" <ssco…@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pm3651179slege8k5gsgqsgmtpeiaghfpq@4ax.com…
> It was the other way around JB was a lap(s) down car on the outside.
> JJ got his nose under IB going into the corner and tapped JB in the LR
> as they were coming off the corner. It was very minor contact at a
> very bad spot.
> Maybe JB could’ve backed off a bit more or driven a bit higher and
> given JJ a little more consideration since JJ was a lead lap car.
> Maybe JJ could have backed out a bit so he didn’t slide up so far. On
> the other hand he was a lead lap car and it looked to me like 3-4"
> would have made a difference.
According to the replay Burton had moved up high to allow jj to get around
clean. This is the replay and discussion on Inside Nextel Cup. Schrader,
Benson and Mikey seemed to agree that Jeff didn’t do anything wrong.
just passing on what I saw and heard in their recap
Michael
"Michael McGaha" <mich…@ronindev.com> wrote in message
news:03J4e.2191$gF5.26@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Steve Scott" <ssco…@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:pm3651179slege8k5gsgqsgmtpeiaghfpq@4ax.com…
> > It was the other way around JB was a lap(s) down car on the outside.
> > JJ got his nose under IB going into the corner and tapped JB in the LR
> > as they were coming off the corner. It was very minor contact at a
> > very bad spot.
> > Maybe JB could’ve backed off a bit more or driven a bit higher and
> > given JJ a little more consideration since JJ was a lead lap car.
> > Maybe JJ could have backed out a bit so he didn’t slide up so far. On
> > the other hand he was a lead lap car and it looked to me like 3-4"
> > would have made a difference.
> According to the replay Burton had moved up high to allow jj to get around
> clean. This is the replay and discussion on Inside Nextel Cup. Schrader,
> Benson and Mikey seemed to agree that Jeff didn’t do anything wrong.
> just passing on what I saw and heard in their recap
I agree he went high to let JJ in. But he didn’t go high enough on exit to
allow a clean pass.
-Russ.