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	<title>Comments on: fuel injection</title>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.nascarracingclub.com/fuel-injection/comment-page-1#comment-1651</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nascarracingclub.com/fuel-injection#comment-1651</guid>
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  &lt;p&gt;Matt Thul &lt;dont.spam.t...@newsguy.com&gt; wrote: &lt;br /&gt; &gt;At least for a while, I&#039;d expect to see teams swapping injectors &lt;br /&gt; &gt;almost as much as they swap shocks. &#160;I&#039;m hardly an expert here, so &lt;br /&gt; &gt;perhaps someone can enlighten me, but I&#039;d guess that &lt;br /&gt; &gt;optimum-to-the-last-single-horsepower-possible injector spray patterns &lt;br /&gt; &gt;might be partially dependent upon temperature and humidity. &#160;And/or &lt;br /&gt; &gt;perhaps there&#039;s tradeoffs in orfice size vs duration. &#160; &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;Probably not. &#160;The characteristic of primary importance is getting good &lt;br /&gt; atomization, in other words as fine a spray as possible. &#160;The duration &lt;br /&gt; isn&#039;t particularly important, so you&#039;re free to vary that as needed to &lt;br /&gt; get the fuel mix (lean/rich) where it needs to be. &#160;Duration would be &lt;br /&gt; varied by changing the programming of the electronics, of course, &lt;br /&gt; not the injectors (I&#039;m assuming they won&#039;t be using the old Hilborn &lt;br /&gt; system...). &lt;br /&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;That applies to gasoline, at least. &#160;Alcohol motors may well be a different &lt;br /&gt; story, since they have to flow so much more fuel, and atomization isn&#039;t &lt;br /&gt; as important. &#160;Fortunately WC isn&#039;t likely to go that way, regardless of &lt;br /&gt; what the presidential candidates are promising in Iowa. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;John &lt;br /&gt;
  
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt Thul &lt;dont.spam.t&#8230;@newsguy.com&gt; wrote: <br /> &gt;At least for a while, I&#8217;d expect to see teams swapping injectors <br /> &gt;almost as much as they swap shocks. &nbsp;I&#8217;m hardly an expert here, so <br /> &gt;perhaps someone can enlighten me, but I&#8217;d guess that <br /> &gt;optimum-to-the-last-single-horsepower-possible injector spray patterns <br /> &gt;might be partially dependent upon temperature and humidity. &nbsp;And/or <br /> &gt;perhaps there&#8217;s tradeoffs in orfice size vs duration. &nbsp; </p>
<p>Probably not. &nbsp;The characteristic of primary importance is getting good <br /> atomization, in other words as fine a spray as possible. &nbsp;The duration <br /> isn&#8217;t particularly important, so you&#8217;re free to vary that as needed to <br /> get the fuel mix (lean/rich) where it needs to be. &nbsp;Duration would be <br /> varied by changing the programming of the electronics, of course, <br /> not the injectors (I&#8217;m assuming they won&#8217;t be using the old Hilborn <br /> system&#8230;).  </p>
<p>That applies to gasoline, at least. &nbsp;Alcohol motors may well be a different <br /> story, since they have to flow so much more fuel, and atomization isn&#8217;t <br /> as important. &nbsp;Fortunately WC isn&#8217;t likely to go that way, regardless of <br /> what the presidential candidates are promising in Iowa.  </p>
<p>John </p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.nascarracingclub.com/fuel-injection/comment-page-1#comment-1650</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
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  On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:55:33 GMT, igop...@ix.netcom.com (John McCoy) &lt;br /&gt; wrote: &lt;br /&gt; &lt;p&gt;&gt;Incidently, the question of cost is a little more complex than it seems. &lt;br /&gt; &gt;There&#039;s definately a high up front cost to go from the familiar carb to &lt;br /&gt; &gt;FI, but on the long term it&#039;s a lot easier to adjust FI than it is to rejet a &lt;br /&gt; &gt;carb everytime you change cams (or the weather changes), which &lt;br /&gt; &gt;would cut your running costs... &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;At least for a while, I&#039;d expect to see teams swapping injectors &lt;br /&gt; almost as much as they swap shocks. &#160;I&#039;m hardly an expert here, so &lt;br /&gt; perhaps someone can enlighten me, but I&#039;d guess that &lt;br /&gt; optimum-to-the-last-single-horsepower-possible injector spray patterns &lt;br /&gt; might be partially dependent upon temperature and humidity. &#160;And/or &lt;br /&gt; perhaps there&#039;s tradeoffs in orfice size vs duration. &#160; &lt;br /&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Matt Thul &lt;br /&gt; [to reply via email, please delete &#039;dont.spam.&#039; from my address] &lt;br /&gt;
  
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:55:33 GMT, <a href="mailto:igop...@ix.netcom.com">igop&#8230;@ix.netcom.com</a> (John McCoy) <br /> wrote: <br /> 
<p>&gt;Incidently, the question of cost is a little more complex than it seems. <br /> &gt;There&#8217;s definately a high up front cost to go from the familiar carb to <br /> &gt;FI, but on the long term it&#8217;s a lot easier to adjust FI than it is to rejet a <br /> &gt;carb everytime you change cams (or the weather changes), which <br /> &gt;would cut your running costs&#8230; </p>
<p>At least for a while, I&#8217;d expect to see teams swapping injectors <br /> almost as much as they swap shocks. &nbsp;I&#8217;m hardly an expert here, so <br /> perhaps someone can enlighten me, but I&#8217;d guess that <br /> optimum-to-the-last-single-horsepower-possible injector spray patterns <br /> might be partially dependent upon temperature and humidity. &nbsp;And/or <br /> perhaps there&#8217;s tradeoffs in orfice size vs duration. &nbsp;  </p>
<p>Matt Thul <br /> [to reply via email, please delete 'dont.spam.' from my address] </p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.nascarracingclub.com/fuel-injection/comment-page-1#comment-1648</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nascarracingclub.com/fuel-injection#comment-1648</guid>
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  &lt;p&gt;Bill &lt;maxx...@bellsouth.net&gt; wrote: &lt;br /&gt; &gt; &#160; &#160;OK, let me reset the premise of this question. In a race application, &lt;br /&gt; &gt;there is no power advantage from a carb to injection, in a gasoline &lt;br /&gt; &gt;engine. Certainly not in a stock car application. I&#039;m just asking about &lt;br /&gt; &gt;what&#039;s in the France boy heads. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;I&#039;d say it&#039;s unlikely, unless the manufacturers suddenly all decided they &lt;br /&gt; wanted to showcase FI for marketing reasons (if GM &amp; Ford showed &lt;br /&gt; up in the NASCAR offices and said they needed to be running FI, then &lt;br /&gt; you can be sure NASCAR would do something). &#160;I don&#039;t see this as &lt;br /&gt; likely, the manufacturers seem to be getting plenty of advantage from &lt;br /&gt; the current situation (which has little obvious connection to production &lt;br /&gt; car tech, altho there&#039;s lots of hidden things) so there&#039;s no reason for them &lt;br /&gt; to press for a change. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Incidently, the question of cost is a little more complex than it seems. &lt;br /&gt; There&#039;s definately a high up front cost to go from the familiar carb to &lt;br /&gt; FI, but on the long term it&#039;s a lot easier to adjust FI than it is to rejet a &lt;br /&gt; carb everytime you change cams (or the weather changes), which &lt;br /&gt; would cut your running costs... &lt;br /&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;John &lt;br /&gt;
  
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill &lt;maxx&#8230;@bellsouth.net&gt; wrote: <br /> &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;OK, let me reset the premise of this question. In a race application, <br /> &gt;there is no power advantage from a carb to injection, in a gasoline <br /> &gt;engine. Certainly not in a stock car application. I&#8217;m just asking about <br /> &gt;what&#8217;s in the France boy heads. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s unlikely, unless the manufacturers suddenly all decided they <br /> wanted to showcase FI for marketing reasons (if GM &amp; Ford showed <br /> up in the NASCAR offices and said they needed to be running FI, then <br /> you can be sure NASCAR would do something). &nbsp;I don&#8217;t see this as <br /> likely, the manufacturers seem to be getting plenty of advantage from <br /> the current situation (which has little obvious connection to production <br /> car tech, altho there&#8217;s lots of hidden things) so there&#8217;s no reason for them <br /> to press for a change.  </p>
<p>Incidently, the question of cost is a little more complex than it seems. <br /> There&#8217;s definately a high up front cost to go from the familiar carb to <br /> FI, but on the long term it&#8217;s a lot easier to adjust FI than it is to rejet a <br /> carb everytime you change cams (or the weather changes), which <br /> would cut your running costs&#8230;  </p>
<p>John </p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.nascarracingclub.com/fuel-injection/comment-page-1#comment-1649</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nascarracingclub.com/fuel-injection#comment-1649</guid>
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  I think this may depend upon the success of the ASA series next year. &#160;But &lt;br /&gt; even if things work out in ASA, I wouldn&#039;t expect to see even a glimmer of &lt;br /&gt; change in Nascar for atleast 3-5 years afterward. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;p&gt;Mike &lt;br /&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -&lt;/p&gt;Bill wrote: &lt;br /&gt; &gt; One of the things a portion of the motorsports community has criticized &lt;br /&gt; &gt; NASCAR for over the years is the &quot;archaic&quot; engine rules. I love it just &lt;br /&gt; &gt; like it is, but, to my limited knowledge, there hasn&#039;t been a carbureted &lt;br /&gt; &gt; production car in about 15 years. Does anyone see fuel injection in the &lt;br /&gt; &gt; future? &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;
  
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this may depend upon the success of the ASA series next year. &nbsp;But <br /> even if things work out in ASA, I wouldn&#8217;t expect to see even a glimmer of <br /> change in Nascar for atleast 3-5 years afterward. <br /> 
<p>Mike  </p>
<p>- Hide quoted text &#8212; Show quoted text -</p>
<p>Bill wrote: <br /> &gt; One of the things a portion of the motorsports community has criticized <br /> &gt; NASCAR for over the years is the &quot;archaic&quot; engine rules. I love it just <br /> &gt; like it is, but, to my limited knowledge, there hasn&#8217;t been a carbureted <br /> &gt; production car in about 15 years. Does anyone see fuel injection in the <br /> &gt; future? </p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.nascarracingclub.com/fuel-injection/comment-page-1#comment-1646</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
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  &lt;p&gt;I heard that the teams were saying that fuel injection wouldn&#039;t make much of &lt;br /&gt; a difference with engine performance. &#160;Carbs are easier to work on and &lt;br /&gt; replace and more cost effective. &#160;I don&#039;t see why they would want to change &lt;br /&gt; it. &#160;Maybe someone will in the years ahead, but I don&#039;t think it will catch &lt;br /&gt; on. &lt;br /&gt;
  
  &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard that the teams were saying that fuel injection wouldn&#8217;t make much of <br /> a difference with engine performance. &nbsp;Carbs are easier to work on and <br /> replace and more cost effective. &nbsp;I don&#8217;t see why they would want to change <br /> it. &nbsp;Maybe someone will in the years ahead, but I don&#8217;t think it will catch <br /> on. </p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.nascarracingclub.com/fuel-injection/comment-page-1#comment-1647</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nascarracingclub.com/fuel-injection#comment-1647</guid>
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  &lt;p&gt;Bill wrote: &lt;br /&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&gt; One of the things a portion of the motorsports community has criticized &lt;br /&gt; &gt; NASCAR for over the years is the &quot;archaic&quot; engine rules. I love it just &lt;br /&gt; &gt; like it is, but, to my limited knowledge, there hasn&#039;t been a carbureted &lt;br /&gt; &gt; production car in about 15 years. Does anyone see fuel injection in the &lt;br /&gt; &gt; future? &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;&#160; &#160; &#160; &#160; OK, let me reset the premise of this question. In a race application, &lt;br /&gt; there is no power advantage from a carb to injection, in a gasoline &lt;br /&gt; engine. Certainly not in a stock car application. I&#039;m just asking about &lt;br /&gt; what&#039;s in the France boy heads. &lt;br /&gt;
  
  &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill wrote:  </p>
<p>&gt; One of the things a portion of the motorsports community has criticized <br /> &gt; NASCAR for over the years is the &quot;archaic&quot; engine rules. I love it just <br /> &gt; like it is, but, to my limited knowledge, there hasn&#8217;t been a carbureted <br /> &gt; production car in about 15 years. Does anyone see fuel injection in the <br /> &gt; future? </p>
<p>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; OK, let me reset the premise of this question. In a race application, <br /> there is no power advantage from a carb to injection, in a gasoline <br /> engine. Certainly not in a stock car application. I&#8217;m just asking about <br /> what&#8217;s in the France boy heads. </p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.nascarracingclub.com/fuel-injection/comment-page-1#comment-1645</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
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  I saw a segment on NASCAR Garage about F.I. They said the cost would be alot &lt;br /&gt; to each team and since they are experts with a carb, no increase in &lt;br /&gt; horsepower could be made with fuel injection. &lt;br /&gt;
  
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw a segment on NASCAR Garage about F.I. They said the cost would be alot <br /> to each team and since they are experts with a carb, no increase in <br /> horsepower could be made with fuel injection. </p>
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