It’s probably pretty damn hard to fix races, I think given all that goes on
today. Is it impossible? I doubt it. Did it happen this weekend? I also
doubt it. Not sure we’ll ever know, for sure. It’s very hard to prove
something is impossible.
But you know what?
I don’t even care.
If this result was fixed, and it helped heal a man who lost his father,
helped heal his widow, and millions of fans who miss him… I’ll take it.
No race result ever felt as good, even DE winning the 500 in ’98. I love
driving and I love racing, but I don’t care if it was a fix or not. Not
this time. I don’t care what that makes me, either.
You know what else?
I bet a lot of the other guys out there on Sunday night wouldn’t care
either.
My 1.5 cents.
-Russ.
"someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com" <Someb…@wcom.ca> wrote in message <news:vsp27.261221$Z2.3123959@nnrp1.uunet.ca>…
> It’s probably pretty damn hard to fix races, I think given all that goes on
> today. Is it impossible? I doubt it.
I’d think if it’s not impossible, it’s dang near next too it. There
are just too many teams under too much pressure to produce results for
their multi-megabuck sponsors.
The only thing I could see would be a case where a team car that’s not
eligible for the No Bull bonus might be under orders not to beat the
teammate that is eligible, but he’d have to make it look like he gave
his best effort.
On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:35:33 CST, "someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com"
<Someb…@wcom.ca> wrote:
>It’s probably pretty damn hard to fix races, I think given all that goes on
>today. Is it impossible? I doubt it. Did it happen this weekend? I also
>doubt it.
I had the same question.
Only the drivers know for sure. I wouldn’t mind if, in fact, they
eased up just a little bit when they saw #8 making a move.
If any of them did, I’m guessin’ that they didn’t talk about it
beforehand and won’t talk about it much afterward.
I also have the same questions about Petty’s 200th win.
Everything sure worked good for him that day.
Marty
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:35:33 CST, "someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com"
> <Someb…@wcom.ca> wrote:
> >It’s probably pretty damn hard to fix races, I think given all that goes on
> >today. Is it impossible? I doubt it. Did it happen this weekend? I also
> >doubt it.
> I had the same question.
> Only the drivers know for sure. I wouldn’t mind if, in fact, they
> eased up just a little bit when they saw #8 making a move.
> If any of them did, I’m guessin’ that they didn’t talk about it
> beforehand and won’t talk about it much afterward.
> I also have the same questions about Petty’s 200th win.
> Everything sure worked good for him that day.
> Marty
Ditto’s Marty, my feelings exactly. How could you not want this to happen even
as a competitor. This, in a way, puts closure to a bit of history. We do need
to move on. Dan
In rec.autos.sport.nascar.moderated "someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com"
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
<Someb…@wcom.ca> wrote:
>It’s probably pretty damn hard to fix races, I think given all that goes on
>today. Is it impossible? I doubt it. Did it happen this weekend? I also
>doubt it. Not sure we’ll ever know, for sure. It’s very hard to prove
>something is impossible.
>But you know what?
>I don’t even care.
>If this result was fixed, and it helped heal a man who lost his father,
>helped heal his widow, and millions of fans who miss him… I’ll take it.
>No race result ever felt as good, even DE winning the 500 in ’98. I love
>driving and I love racing, but I don’t care if it was a fix or not. Not
>this time. I don’t care what that makes me, either.
>You know what else?
>I bet a lot of the other guys out there on Sunday night wouldn’t care
>either.
>My 1.5 cents.
>-Russ.
I don’t think you can fix who DOES win a race these days, though you might be
able to have team orders like "if any other DE car is up near Junior at the
end, he MUST block rather than trying to pass".
I do think you could have someone fix who is NOT going to win, by intentionally
putting in a part that won’t last the distance, but it would be VERY rare.
Eric
Eric O. Troldahl, E…@Troldahl.com
Moderator Emeritus, rec.autos.sport.nascar.moderated — http://rasnm.carracing.com
#5, #18, #20, #29, #15, #1, #10 — And Kat Teasdale!
I cheer for a lot of drivers in a lot of series, especially female drivers.
i think we should leave it at "that boy was determined to win that race"
dlg <dan4…@rcsis.com> wrote in message news:3B4A5B85.736AABFB@rcsis.com…
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:35:33 CST, "someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com"
> <Someb…@wcom.ca> wrote:
> >It’s probably pretty damn hard to fix races, I think given all that goes
on
> >today. Is it impossible? I doubt it. Did it happen this weekend? I
also
> >doubt it.
> I had the same question.
> Only the drivers know for sure. I wouldn’t mind if, in fact, they
> eased up just a little bit when they saw #8 making a move.
> If any of them did, I’m guessin’ that they didn’t talk about it
> beforehand and won’t talk about it much afterward.
> I also have the same questions about Petty’s 200th win.
> Everything sure worked good for him that day.
> Marty
Ditto’s Marty, my feelings exactly. How could you not want this to happen
even
as a competitor. This, in a way, puts closure to a bit of history. We do
need
to move on. Dan
On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:33:07 CST, dlg <dan4…@rcsis.com> wrote:
[snip]
>Ditto’s Marty, my feelings exactly. How could you not want this to happen
Well, I didn’t particularily want it to happen (not a popular view point,
but tough beans…) for the following reasons:
a.) Not being a DE or DEjr fan, I really couldn’t care if the kid
ever won another race.
b.) I knew his winning this race would just through fuel on the whole
"NASCAR is fixed like WWF" bunch of BS.
c.) I am getting really tired of the perverse amount of attention that
DE’s death has been getting. A DEjr win just results in more (not
to mention that a DEjr win also results in completely assinine
questions being asked of him by blockheads with microphones).
d.) It was too "storybook". I _hate_ "storybook"!! :)
As for the whole fixing question. I too highly doubt it. Granted, MW was
obviously blocking, and it was obvious that he was not going to try to put
a move on DEjr, but those teams had to work hard to get into that position
in the first place. Given how well they did in the first race, it would
make sense that they would be strong in this race. Also, given what happened
in the first race, it would make sense that they would want this one even
more than usual, so it would make sense that they would be up front.
> even as a competitor.
> This, in a way, puts closure to a bit of history. We do need
>to move on. Dan
Amen to that last sentence. It is _way_ past time for that!
–
Ken Sodemann
stuffleh…@bigfoot.com
http://www.execpc.com/~stuffle
NASCAR fan, Packer fan | Go #17, #19, #20, #24, #26, #97 | Go Pack!!
> I do think you could have someone fix who is NOT going to win, by
intentionally
> putting in a part that won’t last the distance, but it would be VERY rare.
Can you say, "larger wholes in restrictor plate?" It would be much easier
for a plate race to be fixed than any other. Did NASCAR give Jrs car the
same goin’ over as every other winner? It did seem as though the 8 had
considerable power. In the beginning he was able to pull away from the pack
without a drafting partner. In fact, they told him to slow down.
Mr. Poole of the Charlotte Observer has the same answer for conspiracy
theorists. I heard him on NPR yesterday – caught him in mid-story about
how NASCAR gives out the restrictor plates AND does inspections, and that a
lot of teams would have liked to see the plate from the #8 car…really
perked up my ears. At the end of the interview, he then says that that’s
HIS answer to how conspiracy nuts would dream it up.
Chris
"DollarBill" <nospambillg…@nospamterranova.net> wrote in message
news:rEC27.26844$rh.522469@news6.giganews.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> > I do think you could have someone fix who is NOT going to win, by
> intentionally
> > putting in a part that won’t last the distance, but it would be VERY
rare.
> Can you say, "larger wholes in restrictor plate?" It would be much easier
> for a plate race to be fixed than any other. Did NASCAR give Jrs car the
> same goin’ over as every other winner? It did seem as though the 8 had
> considerable power. In the beginning he was able to pull away from the
pack
> without a drafting partner. In fact, they told him to slow down.
DollarBill wrote in message …
>Can you say, "larger wholes in restrictor plate?" It would be much easier
>for a plate race to be fixed than any other. Did NASCAR give Jrs car the
>same goin’ over as every other winner? It did seem as though the 8 had
>considerable power. In the beginning he was able to pull away from the
pack
>without a drafting partner. In fact, they told him to slow down.
I don’t know how they passed out the plates at Daytona but I saw Nascar do
it at the room of doom at NHIS last year. Every plate came out of a box.
Each one was checked before it was installed with the crew chief or engine
guy right there bolting it on. They made a "show" of it.
Chuck Scampoli
Race car spelled backwards is race car
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:15:23 CST, "fishman" <fish1…@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>Mr. Poole of the Charlotte Observer has the same answer for conspiracy
>theorists. I heard him on NPR yesterday – caught him in mid-story about
>how NASCAR gives out the restrictor plates AND does inspections, and that a
>lot of teams would have liked to see the plate from the #8 car…really
>perked up my ears. At the end of the interview, he then says that that’s
>HIS answer to how conspiracy nuts would dream it up.
I have a feeling that no conspiracy theory can ever be decisively
defeated.
They can sometimes be proven true. John Wilkes Booth did
not act alone. At the same time that he was stalking Lincoln,
another man attacked Seward with a knife.
I personally can’t imagine any shenanigans with the plate.
I can imagine (and can never prove or disprove) drivers
allowing #8 a little slack that he wouldn’t get any other time.
I won’t kill or die for this opinion. ;o)
Marty
I don’t think Junior’s was the only car with this much power. There was
someone else (maybe Sterling Marlin?) in the early going of the race who kept
charging out front and the crew kept telling them to back off and stay in the
draft. Anyone know for sure who that was???
DollarBill wrote:
> > I do think you could have someone fix who is NOT going to win, by
> intentionally
> > putting in a part that won’t last the distance, but it would be VERY rare.
> Can you say, "larger wholes in restrictor plate?" It would be much easier
> for a plate race to be fixed than any other. Did NASCAR give Jrs car the
> same goin’ over as every other winner? It did seem as though the 8 had
> considerable power. In the beginning he was able to pull away from the pack
> without a drafting partner. In fact, they told him to slow down.
–
Cindy Murray
In honor of my Hero
Dale Earnhardt (1951-2001)
http://members.home.net/borgbilly/nascar/nascar.htm
Yes. You’ve got to know that he probably had more desire to win that race than
just about anyone else out there. He even said so himself a few weeks back,
when he was talking about what would be more special — a win on Father’s Day
or a win at Daytona. Extreme desire turned to extreme hyperfocus. Sort of
like those people who in an instant of panic can lift a whole car by
themselves….
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
"Cliff E." wrote:
> i think we should leave it at "that boy was determined to win that race"
> dlg <dan4…@rcsis.com> wrote in message news:3B4A5B85.736AABFB@rcsis.com…
> "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote:
> > On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:35:33 CST, "someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com"
> > <Someb…@wcom.ca> wrote:
> > >It’s probably pretty damn hard to fix races, I think given all that goes
> on
> > >today. Is it impossible? I doubt it. Did it happen this weekend? I
> also
> > >doubt it.
> > I had the same question.
> > Only the drivers know for sure. I wouldn’t mind if, in fact, they
> > eased up just a little bit when they saw #8 making a move.
> > If any of them did, I’m guessin’ that they didn’t talk about it
> > beforehand and won’t talk about it much afterward.
> > I also have the same questions about Petty’s 200th win.
> > Everything sure worked good for him that day.
> > Marty
> Ditto’s Marty, my feelings exactly. How could you not want this to happen
> even
> as a competitor. This, in a way, puts closure to a bit of history. We do
> need
> to move on. Dan
–
Cindy Murray
In honor of my Hero
Dale Earnhardt (1951-2001)
http://members.home.net/borgbilly/nascar/nascar.htm
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Ken Sodemann wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:33:07 CST, dlg <dan4…@rcsis.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> >Ditto’s Marty, my feelings exactly. How could you not want this to happen
> Well, I didn’t particularily want it to happen (not a popular view point,
> but tough beans…) for the following reasons:
> a.) Not being a DE or DEjr fan, I really couldn’t care if the kid
> ever won another race.
> b.) I knew his winning this race would just through fuel on the whole
> "NASCAR is fixed like WWF" bunch of BS.
> c.) I am getting really tired of the perverse amount of attention that
> DE’s death has been getting. A DEjr win just results in more (not
> to mention that a DEjr win also results in completely assinine
> questions being asked of him by blockheads with microphones).
> d.) It was too "storybook". I _hate_ "storybook"!! :)
> As for the whole fixing question. I too highly doubt it. Granted, MW was
> obviously blocking, and it was obvious that he was not going to try to put
> a move on DEjr, but those teams had to work hard to get into that position
> in the first place. Given how well they did in the first race, it would
> make sense that they would be strong in this race. Also, given what happened
> in the first race, it would make sense that they would want this one even
> more than usual, so it would make sense that they would be up front.
Guess you didn’t read my post-leave it alone-it’s over——Dan
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> > even as a competitor.
> > This, in a way, puts closure to a bit of history. We do need
> >to move on. Dan
> Amen to that last sentence. It is _way_ past time for that!
> —
> Ken Sodemann
> stuffleh…@bigfoot.com
> http://www.execpc.com/~stuffle
> NASCAR fan, Packer fan | Go #17, #19, #20, #24, #26, #97 | Go Pack!!
Did you forget who lost his life in Feb. doing what his was the master
of, blocking so one of
his cars could win the race? They were not
that good then and wasn’t Sat. night either. And if that idiot, Robby
Gordon, had not taking
out several other hot shoes, The Master would
still be with you today. He could not have held
them all at bay. And, yes, Virginia, there is a
Santa Claus. And a tooth fairy. And an easter
bunny. Get your head out of the sand. There
was a way for e to win without you, me, himself,
and all knowing how it was done!!!!
Living in the real world!!
Nita
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:35:42 CST, "DollarBill" <nospambillg…@nospamterranova.net> wrote:
>> I do think you could have someone fix who is NOT going to win, by
>intentionally
>> putting in a part that won’t last the distance, but it would be VERY rare.
>Can you say, "larger wholes in restrictor plate?" It would be much easier
>for a plate race to be fixed than any other.
A – it’d be almost impossible to give one specific car an altered plate.
NASCAR pulls the plates out of a box and distributes them publicly (i.e.
in front of the teams); they’re inspected with a go/no-go gauge publicly
after the race.
B – the team would need to know that they were going to get an altered
plate, and build/tune the motor accordingly, or they wouldn’t get any
significant benefit.
C – Jr’s car obviously didn’t have any more horsepower than anyone else,
anyway. He wasn’t any faster on the straight, we saw several other cars
draft up alongside on the backstretch. Where he had the advantage was
in the corners.
D – if the race was fixed, the simple way to do it would be to let Jr’s crew
know that 100lbs missing from the right side wouldn’t be noticed in inspection.
John
Nita Pate wrote:
> Did you forget who lost his life in Feb. doing what his was the master
> of, blocking so one of
> his cars could win the race? They were not
> that good then and wasn’t Sat. night either. And if that idiot, Robby
> Gordon, had not taking
> out several other hot shoes, The Master would
> still be with you today. He could not have held
> them all at bay. And, yes, Virginia, there is a
> Santa Claus. And a tooth fairy. And an easter
> bunny. Get your head out of the sand. There
> was a way for e to win without you, me, himself,
> and all knowing how it was done!!!!
> Living in the real world!!
> Nita
Not sure what your rant is, I think we kind of agree. Your post is not
clear to me, maybe you were talking to someone else….Dan———-bottom
line, it doesn’t matter whether or not it was fixed!!!!!!!
"someb…@nospam.russdoucet.com" wrote:
> It’s probably pretty damn hard to fix races, I think given all that goes on
> today. Is it impossible? I doubt it. Did it happen this weekend? I also doubt it.
Some of you may remember that, in 1994 or 1995, "Sports Illustrated" ran
an big article on Winston Cup and NASCAR. There was ample speculation
that Junior Johnson got "the call." The story was that McDonald’s was
ready to pull out of WC, so NASCAR let the McDonald’s car go through
tech easy. Jimmy Spencer won both Talladega and the Pepsi 400 in
Daytona that year.
I have major doubts a race can be fixed to win because there’s too much
to go wrong. The other 42 competitors, the weather, and dumb luck are
too big a factor.
As to last Saturday, could Little E have gotten an advantage with a
bigger plate or an easier tech inspection? I don’t think so. I think
NASCAR knows that a large portion of its cachet is built on the trust
the fans have that it’s an honest show: NASCAR "sets the table" fairly
level, and the competitors take it from there. I can’t imagine them
being stupid enough to risk the backlash if it was found out WCW really
stood for "Winston Cup on Wheels."
To me, the more likely explanations are:
1. DEI and RCR have darn good plate programs.
2. Little E drove his heart out.
3. On the restart he had 4 fresh tires, all 6 of the cars in front of
him at no more than 2 fresh tires, and Daytona is something of a
handling track.
4. Mikey returned the favor from February.
>And if that idiot, Robby Gordon, had not taking
>out several other hot shoes, The Master would
????????????
Dave Casey
Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4)
http://www.teamcasey.net
http://www.lvkc.com
http://www.buycoolcrap.com
>i think we should leave it at "that boy was determined to win that race"
Could it be that like at Talladega, everybody was too scared to risk the "big
one" that they were still very cautious? Jr. would be the only one out of the
bunch that might just not have given a rat’s butt if he died trying to win that
race.
>4. Mikey returned the favor from February.
You know if Jr. had been at the back of the pack and Waltrip was still at the
front with a win looming over the next lap,,,people would be saying that the
race was fixed in favor of Waltrip! I think it’s more remarkable that the BOTH
of them were up front than Jr.’s victory alone. It’s clear that RCR has some
damn good setups for Daytona,,,after all the man himself spent a good part of
his career trying to master that track.
You will begin to reach heaven at the moment you reach the perfect speed. And
that isn’t driving 100mph, 200mph, or driving at the speed of light. For any
number is a limit, and perfect speed, is being there.
Get real. This is corporate America with literally millions of dollars on
the line in each and every race. There is no fixing of any race, period. Jr
won the race fair and square. It was a great finish and very memorable. Were
the other drivers happy about Jr winning? Damn right they were, but they
would have been happier if they had won it, or at least I know they tried
damn hard to win. Racing isn’t wrestling, thank God!
Jim
AKA ‘Da Flagman
"DollarBill" <nospambillg…@nospamterranova.net> wrote in message
news:rEC27.26844$rh.522469@news6.giganews.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> > I do think you could have someone fix who is NOT going to win, by
> intentionally
> > putting in a part that won’t last the distance, but it would be VERY
rare.
> Can you say, "larger wholes in restrictor plate?" It would be much easier
> for a plate race to be fixed than any other. Did NASCAR give Jrs car the
> same goin’ over as every other winner? It did seem as though the 8 had
> considerable power. In the beginning he was able to pull away from the
pack
> without a drafting partner. In fact, they told him to slow down.
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:59:18 CST, dlg <dan4…@rcsis.com> wrote:
>Ken Sodemann wrote:
[snip]
>> As for the whole fixing question. I too highly doubt it. Granted, MW was
>> obviously blocking, and it was obvious that he was not going to try to put
>> a move on DEjr, but those teams had to work hard to get into that position
>> in the first place. Given how well they did in the first race, it would
>> make sense that they would be strong in this race. Also, given what happened
>> in the first race, it would make sense that they would want this one even
>> more than usual, so it would make sense that they would be up front.
>Guess you didn’t read my post-leave it alone-it’s over——Dan
I read your post. This part of my post was not a response specifically
to you, but to the thread as a whole. It just happened to be in a message
that was partially a response to what you had said.
Sorry if that caused any confusion. I tried to make it clear that I was
addressing the whole issue of the thread, and not any specific item in
anyone’s post…
–
Ken Sodemann
stuffleh…@bigfoot.com
http://www.execpc.com/~stuffle
NASCAR fan, Packer fan | Go #17, #19, #20, #24, #26, #97 | Go Pack!!
>Get real. This is corporate America with literally millions of dollars on
>the line in each and every race. There is no fixing of any race, period
I agree. It was a hard-fought victory, earned through hard work and dedication,
not to to mention superior aerodynamics. The people who are screaming fix are,
for the most part, people who know very little, or absolutely nothing about the
sport.A good example is an article called "NASCAR’s no better than professional
wrestling "which can be seen at
can be seen at:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2001/07/...
ol104.DTL&type=printable
Remember, i dont i agree with it at all, so dont get mad at me
It’s obvious that both RCR and DEI had good setups. At one point all 5 cars
were up front. It was all 5, right? It was at least 4 out of the 5.
I wish I was actually there to experience that one, I bet the speedway was
going nuts.
"JHAREK" <jha…@aol.comneinspam> wrote in message
news:20010711024324.08377.00003533@ng-cj1.aol.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> >4. Mikey returned the favor from February.
> You know if Jr. had been at the back of the pack and Waltrip was still at
the
> front with a win looming over the next lap,,,people would be saying that
the
> race was fixed in favor of Waltrip! I think it’s more remarkable that the
BOTH
> of them were up front than Jr.’s victory alone. It’s clear that RCR has
some
> damn good setups for Daytona,,,after all the man himself spent a good part
of
> his career trying to master that track.