I wonder whether Tony Stewart got called to the Oval Office
for whacking KK.
"Let the one among you who has never rubbed quarter
panels throw the first stone."
RACE RESULTS (Unofficial) From RacinNews.com
1 48 Jimmie Johnson Chevy
2 18 Bobby Labonte Chevy
3 12 Ryan Newman Dodge
4 31 Robby Gordon Chevy
5 38 Elliott Sadler Ford
6 97 Kurt Busch Ford
7 6 Mark Martin Ford
8 29 Kevin Harvick Chevy
9 19 Jeremy Mayfield Dodge
10 8 Dale Earnhardt Jr. Chevy
11 99 Jeff Burton Ford
12 16 Greg Biffle Ford
13 9 Kasey Kahne R Dodge
14 40 Sterling Marlin Dodge
15 41 Casey Mears Dodge
16 22 Scott Wimmer R Dodge
17 20 Tony Stewart Chevy
18 0 Ward Burton Chevy
19 5 Terry Labonte Chevy
20 01 Joe Nemechek Chevy
21 42 Jamie McMurray Dodge
22 49 Ken Schrader Dodge
23 25 Brian Vickers R Chevy
24 43 Jeff Green Dodge
25 50 Derrike Cope Dodge
26 30 Johnny Sauter R Chevy
27 77 Brendan Gaughan R Dodge
28 4 Kevin Lepage Chevy
29 2 Rusty Wallace Dodge
30 10 Scott Riggs R Chevy
31 17 Matt Kenseth Ford
32 88 Dale Jarrett Ford
33 21 Ricky Rudd Ford
34 45 Kyle Petty Dodge
35 15 Michael Waltrip Chevy
36 32 Ricky Craven Chevy
37 2 Andy Belmont Pont.
38 89 Morgan Shepherd Dodge
39 172 Kirk Shelmerdine Ford
40 198 Todd Bodine Ford
41 24 Jeff Gordon Chevy
42 280 Andy Hillenburg Ford
43 9 Joe Ruttman Dodge
~~~
Points (Unofficial) From RacinNews.com
http://www.racinnews.com
1 Matt Kenseth 743
2 Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 722 +1
3 Tony Stewart 708 -1
4 Kurt Busch 687 +2
5 Kasey Kahne R 679 -1
6 Jimmie Johnson 665 +3
7 Jeremy Mayfield 652
8 Bobby Labonte 644 +2
9 Ryan Newman 637 +2
10 Elliott Sadler 636 -2
11 Kevin Harvick 608
12 Mark Martin 583
12 Jeff Gordon 583
14 Joe Nemechek 568
14 Ward Burton 568
16 Sterling Marlin 562
17 Casey Mears 551
18 Greg Biffle 543
19 Jamie McMurray 542
20 Scott Wimmer R 531
21 Terry Labonte 529
22 Dale Jarrett 512
23 Rusty Wallace 490
24 Robby Gordon 468
25 Johnny Sauter R 455
26 Brendan Gaughan R 452
27 Jeff Burton 451
28 Brian Vickers R 449
29 Ricky Rudd 428
30 Kyle Petty 418
31 Jeff Green 401
32 Ricky Craven 397
33 Ken Schrader 374
34 Scott Riggs R 373
35 Kevin Lepage 353
36 Derrike Cope 347
37 Michael Waltrip 322
38 Dave Blaney 248
39 John Andretti 205
40 Kirk Shelmerdine 160
41 Johnny Benson 152
42 Larry Foyt 146
43 Andy Hillenburg 135
44 Bill Elliott 103
45 Joe Ruttman 102
46 Andy Belmont 98
46 Carl Long 98
48 Mike Skinner 97
49 Morgan Shepherd 91
49 Jimmy Spencer 91
51 Todd Bodine 48
52 Kyle Busch 40
~~~
Manufacturer Championship (Unofficial) (VERY, VERY Unofficial) (this
is
just a guide ONLY)
Pos. Manu. Pnts Wins
1 Chevy 35 3
2 Ford 32 2
2 Dodge 28 0
How Manufacturer points are awarded: 1st -9 points, 2nd-6 pts, 3rd-4
pts
~~~
Rookie of the Year (Unofficial) (VERY, VERY Unofficial)
(this is just a guide ONLY)
Driver Pts Wins
1 Kasey Kahne 75
2 Scott Wimmer 51
3 Johnny Sauter 42
4 Brian Vickers 42
5 Brendan Gaughan 39
6 Scott Riggs 35
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <mole…@canisius.edu> wrote in
news:a17s50p74bes6hq5fdk9r7531eoh8hkfft@4ax.com:
> I wonder whether Tony Stewart got called to the Oval Office
> for whacking KK.
Dunno, but I have to say that last caution was farcial. NASCAR really
needs to sit down and straighten out their procedures; a guy spins
without hitting anything at all coming to 11 to go, and the green
comes back out with 4 to go? It takes 7 laps, even tho there’s no
stalled car, no debris, no reason to put out a yellow at all?
John
On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:44:17 CST, John McCoy <igop…@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
> … NASCAR really
>needs to sit down and straighten out their procedures; a guy spins
>without hitting anything at all coming to 11 to go, and the green
>comes back out with 4 to go? It takes 7 laps, even tho there’s no
>stalled car, no debris, no reason to put out a yellow at all?
It did seem weird that it took so long. Another 3 laps of green-flag
racing would have been nice.
Marty
"John McCoy" wrote …
> "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote:
> > I wonder whether Tony Stewart got called to the Oval Office
> > for whacking KK.
> Dunno, but I have to say that last caution was farcial. NASCAR really
> needs to sit down and straighten out their procedures; a guy spins
> without hitting anything at all coming to 11 to go, and the green
> comes back out with 4 to go? It takes 7 laps, even tho there’s no
> stalled car, no debris, no reason to put out a yellow at all?
> John
I agree. 3-4 laps BEFORE the pits opened then 3 more for pit stops and 2 to
1 to 0 to go. For WHAT? Could have – SHOULD have – EASILY had twice
as many laps in the shootout.
Gotta wonder if the "R" in NASCAR still stand for Racing or has that also
changed?
The other thing is the field fillers. Is NASCAR willing to trade a 24 (and
almost a 20) for an 80?
So, what was the minimum speed Sunday and was the 80 turning it when the
race
started? At what point do they have to be making the minimum speed? Is it
possible to take the green having NEVER made the minimum speed in qual or
practice?
"WildWeasel" <wweasel…@HooYah.com> wrote in message
news:8KicnVVMd5Z7ccPdUSdV9g@ptd.net…
> "John McCoy" wrote …
> Gotta wonder if the "R" in NASCAR still stand for Racing or has that also
> changed?
> The other thing is the field fillers. Is NASCAR willing to trade a 24
(and
> almost a 20) for an 80?
I am amazed at the talk about fillers. Everyone in the race was a qualified
driver. That doesn’t mean they are a good driver, but don’t call them
"fillers" when they are as good, if not better, than some of the regulars.
They qualified for the race the same way everyone else did. Or are you going
to say Mikey should not be allowed to run since he lost control with no one
around? I guess Mikey is a filler too?
Michael
Michael McGaha wrote:
> I am amazed at the talk about fillers. Everyone in the race was a
> qualified driver. That doesn’t mean they are a good driver, but don’t
> call them "fillers" when they are as good, if not better, than some
> of the regulars.
There being called ‘fillers’ because NASCAR was calling around trying to get
enough drivers to fill the field.
Is NASCAR doing it, week-in and week-out? I don’t know. But, NASCAR is
supposed to be making some kind of statement about it today.
"Michael McGaha" wrote …
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "WildWeasel" wrote …
> > The other thing is the field fillers. Is NASCAR willing to trade a
> > 24 (and almost a 20) for an 80?
> I am amazed at the talk about fillers. Everyone in the race was a
qualified
> driver. That doesn’t mean they are a good driver, but don’t call them
> "fillers" when they are as good, if not better, than some of the regulars.
> They qualified for the race the same way everyone else did. Or are you
going
> to say Mikey should not be allowed to run since he lost control with no
one
> around? I guess Mikey is a filler too?
Sorry, Michael, I think something is wrong with a system that lets a car
over 20 MPH slower than the pole sitter (and 13 MPH behind the *slowest*
qualifier on speed) on the track.
Especially when Stanton Barrett’s best run was 7.7 MPH slower than the pole
speed and qualifying run was only 8 MPH off the pole – and he went home.
MAYBE *this* time a phone call wasn’t made and the 80 is technically not a
"filler", this week, but he shouldn’t have been on the track.
Yes, years back there wasn’t a rule … but years back there wasn’t money
and TV and sponsors like now either and they ran on dirt.
I’m just interested to know, what was the minimum speed and who, if anyone,
wasn’t turning it and when; and can they take the green if they hadn’t made
minimum speed the whole weekend? Including Mikey.
"WildWeasel" wrote …
> I’m just interested to know, what was the minimum speed and who, if
> anyone, wasn’t turning it and when; and can they take the green if they
> hadn’t made minimum speed the whole weekend? Including Mikey.
Here’s part of the answer …
from Jayski…..
Hillenburg was up to NASCAR’s minimum speed: #80-Andy Hillenburg was
traveling above NASCAR’s mandated minimum speed of 135.409 mph (34.5 seconds
per lap) [note: not sure how NASCAR calculates minimum speed, this speed is
about 80% of the pole speed] in Sunday’s race when #20-Tony Stewart got a
run on his car and sent it sideways on Lap 28. Title contender #24-Jeff
Gordon, who was running behind those two, had nowhere to go and T-boned
Hillenburg’s car. The wreck ended Gordon’s day, and he finished 41st,
dropping him from fifth to 13th in the points standings. After the accident,
Hillenburg admitted, "We have to go back and make the car faster to keep up
with these guys." That wasn’t good enough for Gordon’s team owner, Rick
Hendrick. After the race, Hendrick said, "If those guys can’t get out of the
way, then they shouldn’t be there." Hendrick plans to discuss the issue of
slower cars with NASCAR this week.(FoxSports/Sporting News)(3-22-2004)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:32:35 CST, "WildWeasel" <wweasel…@HooYah.com>
wrote:
>Sorry, Michael, I think something is wrong with a system that lets a car
>over 20 MPH slower than the pole sitter (and 13 MPH behind the *slowest*
>qualifier on speed) on the track.
When I post the qualifying times for Darlington, I noted the slowest
group.
Seemed to me that some of them made it in on provisionals, rather
than speed.
In another post, I noted that coming in 43rd 36 times is worth
about $1.8 million for the season (if the last spot pays about
$50,000, which may be an overestimate).
My point is that there are financial reasons for trying to make the
field. NASCAR may some day boost the payouts at the bottom
to make sure that weaker teams can still afford to compete,
even though they’re not competing for the win.
>Especially when Stanton Barrett’s best run was 7.7 MPH slower than the pole
>speed and qualifying run was only 8 MPH off the pole – and he went home.
I think it was the provisionals that kept him off the track.
I don’t know the provisional rules–how long it may take to
earn enough points so that Barrett’s team could knock
someone else out of the race.
>MAYBE *this* time a phone call wasn’t made and the 80 is technically not a
>"filler", this week, but he shouldn’t have been on the track.
People are playing by the rules, I guess.
Other rules could be written.
NASCAR may or may not write new rules to fit the
current economics.
>Yes, years back there wasn’t a rule … but years back there wasn’t money
>and TV and sponsors like now either and they ran on dirt.
Money seems to be drying up for some teams. Look at how hard
Jeff Burton struggled to find a sponsor (did he?). He’s still a
contender in my mind, or at least a contender for the top-10.
If he can’t get funding, it must be really hard for lesser drivers.
>I’m just interested to know, what was the minimum speed and who, if anyone,
>wasn’t turning it and when; and can they take the green if they hadn’t made
>minimum speed the whole weekend?
I dunno.
Marty
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:06:31 CST, "WildWeasel" <wweasel…@HooYah.com>
wrote:
>from Jayski…..
>Hillenburg was up to NASCAR’s minimum speed: #80-Andy Hillenburg was
>traveling above NASCAR’s mandated minimum speed of 135.409 mph (34.5 seconds
>per lap) [note: not sure how NASCAR calculates minimum speed, this speed is
>about 80% of the pole speed] …
I’m not sure either. Is it a fixed value for the whole race or do
they recompute it based on lap times during the race?
A note from Rockingham:
NASCAR ordered Ruttman off the track one lap into the race when they
saw he had no pit crew set up. Shelmerdine was called off shortly
after – he had been lapped eight minutes in – because he wasn’t up to
the minimum speed requirement. Still, Ruttman earned $54,196 for his
last-place finish and Shelmerdine got $54,895 for coming in 42nd.
Hillenburg finished in 34th place, 17 laps down, and picked up
$55,425. Long, too, had been lapped several times, but was running a
clean race before the wreck. He finished 38th and earned $55,135. "We
made the highlight reel, but it won’t do much for me racing," said
Long, who has made spot starts in NASCAR’s top series the past several
years. "Without any sponsor and without any deal, that’s not the way I
wanted to finish today. I don’t have another car, so I guess it will
be some time before I get out there again – unless someone wants me to
put their car on the highlight reel like that."
<http://jayski.thatsracin.com/past/040216.htm>
Marty
"WildWeasel" <wweasel…@HooYah.com> wrote in
news:j5udnQ-qzaVV3sLdUSdV9g@ptd.net:
> NASCAR’s mandated minimum speed of 135.409 mph (34.5
> seconds per lap) [note: not sure how NASCAR calculates minimum speed,
> this speed is about 80% of the pole speed]
Note that 80% of pole speed would probably be barely slower than the
leaders race lap times, at the end of a tire run.
John
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <mole…@canisius.edu> wrote in
news:m20v509932hi9m5bmm3g38svih355le5mg@4ax.com:
> In another post, I noted that coming in 43rd 36 times is worth
> about $1.8 million for the season (if the last spot pays about
> $50,000, which may be an overestimate).
This is a big part of why guys like Hillenburg and Long are trying
to run in Cup, instead of Busch. To be successful in Cup, they’ve
got to learn to compete at a top level. With all the Buschwackers,
they’re not going to compete for a win in either series. So, given
you’ll be racing against the same guys, and not winning in either
series, why would you race for $15k to finish 10th in Busch when
you can get $50k to finish 40th in Cup?
Note that there is a difference between guys like Long & Hillenburg,
and perhaps Shelmerdine, compared to Shepard & Ruttman who are
just showing up for the money.
John
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:00:49 CST, John McCoy <igop…@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
> … Note that there is a difference between guys like Long & Hillenburg,
>and perhaps Shelmerdine, compared to Shepard & Ruttman who are
>just showing up for the money.
I don’t know any of the drivers personally.
My ESP says that Shepard and Ruttman might enjoy being
part of "the show." There are probably more rewards to being
part of the scene than just money.
But if my ESP were a reliable guide to reality, I’d have a lot
more rewards to show for the bets I make in life. :o(
Marty
"John McCoy" wrote …
> "WildWeasel" wrote:
> > NASCAR’s mandated minimum speed of 135.409 mph (34.5
> > seconds per lap) [note: not sure how NASCAR calculates minimum speed,
> > this speed is about 80% of the pole speed]
> Note that 80% of pole speed would probably be barely slower than the
> leaders race lap times, at the end of a tire run.
Which means at the end of HIS tire run Hillenburg would be doing about 120
MPH at best.
John McCoy <igop…@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Dunno, but I have to say that last caution was farcial. NASCAR really
>needs to sit down and straighten out their procedures; a guy spins
>without hitting anything at all coming to 11 to go, and the green
>comes back out with 4 to go? It takes 7 laps, even tho there’s no
>stalled car, no debris, no reason to put out a yellow at all?
I was in the stands for that one.. It was getting ugly up there –
lots of people with several beers in them but only one opinion of
NASCAR’s Powers That Be…
+—-/|————————————-+——————-+
| | | djl…@wildwizards.net \ |
| / | \ |
| ( ) http://www.wildwizards.net \ ICQ# 8976662 |
+–`–’ —————————————-+—————+
"Michael McGaha" <mich…@electricdreams.com> wrote:
>I am amazed at the talk about fillers. Everyone in the race was a qualified
>driver. That doesn’t mean they are a good driver, but don’t call them
>"fillers" when they are as good, if not better, than some of the regulars.
>They qualified for the race the same way everyone else did. Or are you going
>to say Mikey should not be allowed to run since he lost control with no one
>around? I guess Mikey is a filler too?
I wouldn’t consider Andy Hillenberg or Derrick Cope a field filler.
Their CARS, however, are a different story.
+—-/|————————————-+——————-+
| | | djl…@wildwizards.net \ |
| / | \ |
| ( ) http://www.wildwizards.net \ ICQ# 8976662 |
+–`–’ —————————————-+—————+
<djl…@wildwizards.net> wrote in message
news:uen0605d7qp9csn50mpem6cd42r6prdsgn@4ax.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Michael McGaha" <mich…@electricdreams.com> wrote:
> >I am amazed at the talk about fillers. Everyone in the race was a
qualified
> >driver. That doesn’t mean they are a good driver, but don’t call them
> >"fillers" when they are as good, if not better, than some of the
regulars.
> >They qualified for the race the same way everyone else did. Or are you
going
> >to say Mikey should not be allowed to run since he lost control with no
one
> >around? I guess Mikey is a filler too?
> I wouldn’t consider Andy Hillenberg or Derrick Cope a field filler.
> Their CARS, however, are a different story.
Nice to see all the discussion. I personally don’t have an opinion about
this. It just rankled me that Mr. Gordo was all hot about t-boning what he
called a filler when he could have just as easily hit Mikey when he spun.
Mr. Gordo just wants someone else to blame his misfortune on. Just don’t
start throwing accusations around when a large percentage of the people on
the track were leaving their trademarks on the walls. It would be
interesting to see just how many different colors they had to clean off the
walls after the race. Of course, this is one of the reasons I don’t
particularly like JG… it’s always his good driving when he wins and it’s
always someone else’s fault when he doesn’t.
of course I’m not supposed to generalize, am I?
Oh. I guess I should also say that I didn’t see any KK Red on the wall. That
boy is going to be good when he gets the hang of this. (Isn’t that what his
car owner said?)
Michael
"Michael McGaha" wrote …
> Nice to see all the discussion. I personally don’t have an opinion about
> this. It just rankled me that Mr. Gordo was all hot about t-boning what he
> called a filler when he could have just as easily hit Mikey when he spun.
> Mr. Gordo just wants someone else to blame his misfortune on. Just don’t
> start throwing accusations around when a large percentage of the people on
> the track were leaving their trademarks on the walls. It would be
> interesting to see just how many different colors they had to clean off
the
> walls after the race. Of course, this is one of the reasons I don’t
> particularly like JG… it’s always his good driving when he wins and it’s
> always someone else’s fault when he doesn’t.
> of course I’m not supposed to generalize, am I?
I think JG specifically explained his remarks to be about slow cars *that
couldn’t stay out of the way*, not just slow cars. One might say that it
sure is easier to drive a fast car than a slow car, but what do they say,
Lead, Follow or Get out of the way?
> Oh. I guess I should also say that I didn’t see any KK Red on the wall.
That
> boy is going to be good when he gets the hang of this. (Isn’t that what
his
> car owner said?)
He’s pretty impressive. Wonder if he’s running a string of beginner’s luck
or if he’s gonna be able to sustain it?
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:32:42 CST, "Michael McGaha"
<mich…@electricdreams.com> wrote:
> … It just rankled me that Mr. Gordo was all hot about t-boning what he
>called a filler when he could have just as easily hit Mikey when he spun.
>Mr. Gordo just wants someone else to blame his misfortune on. …
Looked to me like Tony Stewart was pounding folks around:
Andy Hillenberg first, who spun and got T-boned by JG.
Then KK, who managed to keep it off the wall and come home
with an outstanding finish, all things considered.
Whassup with Tony? Is he doing this on purpose or is he
not paying attention?
Marty
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:54:57 CST, "WildWeasel" <wweasel…@HooYah.com>
wrote:
>… He’s pretty impressive.
Dave Despain said some has calculated that he’s the hottest rookie in
40 years.
> Wonder if he’s running a string of beginner’s luck
>or if he’s gonna be able to sustain it?
I think he’s the real deal.
Marty
"Michael McGaha" <mich…@electricdreams.com> wrote:
>Mr. Gordo just wants someone else to blame his misfortune on. Just don’t
>start throwing accusations around when a large percentage of the people on
>the track were leaving their trademarks on the walls. It would be
>interesting to see just how many different colors they had to clean off the
>walls after the race. Of course, this is one of the reasons I don’t
>particularly like JG… it’s always his good driving when he wins and it’s
>always someone else’s fault when he doesn’t.
Well, to be honest, this one WASN’T his fault by any stretch of the
imagination.
I mean, not much you can do when you’re in Turn 2 and there’s an
inconveniently placed roadblock nearly perfectly perpendicular to the
direction of traffic.
This wasn’t like (IIRC) in a Busch race early this year where the
yellow had been out for quite some time and the disabled car was
t-boned by someone going WAY too fast for far too long (I’m *thinking*
it was Hermie Sadler who did the t-boning but I could be wrong)
+—-/|————————————-+——————-+
| | | djl…@wildwizards.net \ |
| / | \ |
| ( ) http://www.wildwizards.net \ ICQ# 8976662 |
+–`–’ —————————————-+—————+
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <mole…@canisius.edu> wrote:
>Looked to me like Tony Stewart was pounding folks around:
>Andy Hillenberg first, who spun and got T-boned by JG.
Hillenberg himself said that his car got loose and suddenly went up
the track right in front of Tony. Tony didn’t ahve much time to
react.
+—-/|————————————-+——————-+
| | | djl…@wildwizards.net \ |
| / | \ |
| ( ) http://www.wildwizards.net \ ICQ# 8976662 |
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"Michael McGaha" <mich…@electricdreams.com> wrote in
news:Qo%7c.9842$Xc4.976@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:
> Oh. I guess I should also say that I didn’t see any KK Red on the
> wall. That boy is going to be good when he gets the hang of this.
> (Isn’t that what his car owner said?)
Did you happen to see qualifying & happy hour practice? There was
nothing on the right side of Kahne’s car – no number, no decals,
nothing but blank red. Apparently the crew wasn’t confident that
he wouldn’t get some red paint on the wall, and figured to save
themselves the effort of doing the decals twice.
John
"WildWeasel" <wweasel…@HooYah.com> wrote in
news:fPCcneCMopl73v3dUSdV9g@ptd.net:
> "John McCoy" wrote …
>> "WildWeasel" wrote:
>> > NASCAR’s mandated minimum speed of 135.409 mph (34.5
>> > seconds per lap) [note: not sure how NASCAR calculates minimum
>> > speed, this speed is about 80% of the pole speed]
>> Note that 80% of pole speed would probably be barely slower than the
>> leaders race lap times, at the end of a tire run.
> Which means at the end of HIS tire run Hillenburg would be doing about
> 120 MPH at best.
True – point was, it’s hard to set a minimum speed rule when the
speed of the good cars varies so much over the course of a tire
run.
TJ’s idea, about using the F1 standard that a car has to be
within 107% of pole speed to start, is probably a better way to
filter out the incapable cars.
John
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <mole…@canisius.edu> wrote in
news:vu8v505c1pto41mkrujamlc6rpefvftmsj@4ax.com:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:00:49 CST, John McCoy <igop…@ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>> … Note that there is a difference between guys like Long & Hillenburg,
>>and perhaps Shelmerdine, compared to Shepard & Ruttman who are
>>just showing up for the money.
> I don’t know any of the drivers personally.
I don’t either
My comments are just based on observation…
> My ESP says that Shepard and Ruttman might enjoy being
> part of "the show." There are probably more rewards to being
> part of the scene than just money.
Yes, that’s true. Neither driver is there to compete however;
Ruttman at least has been pretty open about that. Long and
Hillenburg both want to compete, and both clearly feel that it’s
only the car, not their ability, which keeps them in the back.
Shelmerdine I really can’t figure out; I don’t know if he’s
trying & is just handicapped by lack of skill & even worse
equipment than the others or what. I can’t recall a single
TV or print interview with him to give any clues.
John